"All along, the SEALs had planned to dump bin Laden’s corpse into the sea—a blunt way of ending the bin Laden myth."
Yeah right. The only reason his body was dumped into the sea is because if they had paraded it around, everyone would be able to see that OBL isn't the same as the guy in the video who claimed credit for 9/11.
"Man, these guys went to a lot of effort to get a fake body, then."
You're missing what I'm saying. Assuming the body the recovered was actually OBL, then any high-res photographs and videos released could have potentially proven that the evidence used as a pretext for the large-scale invasion of Afghanistan was fake.
Before that video, there were less than 1,000 Americans in Afghanistan. Today there are 90,000. Is it really that difficult to see why this matters?
I'm saying that if you watch the actual video I linked to that was the pretext for the large-scale invasion of Afghanistan, it's extremely clear that the man in that video looks nothing like every other photo/video of OBL from both before and after.
The U.S. government told us in 2001 that they found a video of OBL claiming credit for 9/11. Given the evidence, is it really that unreasonable to ask whether or not that video is actually authentic? Is it really that unreasonable to expect the government not to make unavailable critical evidence in the matter?
How come HN gets pissed off at the sort of people who say that evolution is fake without looking at the evidence, but when I ask for evidence that this video is actually authentic I get downmodded over 40 points?
We know their "evidence" for Iraq was multiple kinds of shit. They didn't even go out of their way to conceal that once they got into there. Why should they worry about protecting the lies of a disgraced ex-president this time?
And I believe the reason that you are being down-voted is 1) you sound like a wingnut, 2) your claims are unclear. It is quite hard to work out what exactly you are trying to suggest.
And comparing rolling eyes at 9-11 conspiracy theories with denying evolution probably isn't helping you either...
Do you seriously think the only evidence linking UBL to 911 is a single video?
The US captured hundreds of enemy combatants and interrogated them all. A lot of them mention and talk about UBL and the role he played pre and post-911.
"Do you seriously think the only evidence linking UBL to 911 is a single video?"
Can you link me to where on the web it is that the U.S. government has outlined the main evidence that OBL was behind 9/11? Because the official FBI page does not even list him as a suspect in the attacks:
> Is it really that difficult to see why this matters?
Yes, it is. Even the craziest wingnut can plausibly say that the US was after Iraqi oil, but a conspiracy theory to blast into Afghanistan and stay there for a decade seems like it would have little benefit for the US.
I'm not suggesting there's any merit to any particular conspiracy theories, but Afghanistan is a key region in the oil industry, specifically for pipeline routes. If the Afghani government won't play ball with Western interests with a stake in moving oil from Central Asia to Asian markets, the story goes, then the US will presumably do what it takes to replace that government.
The photos are highly classified, and they've stated why they don't want to release them. If Osama was shot with a high caliber bullet in the face, you probably can't even recognize him anyway.
Did any of the news outlets ever confirm the photo released was actually from the government? I haven't seen any of them say "we obtained this photo from the government," I have only seen one station run the single photo, and they explicitly said it was unconfirmed.
"I'm surprised you're making such accusations, and without knowing the facts."
The reason why I'm asking for the facts is because I don't know the facts. That's the whole point. If I already knew the facts then I wouldn't be asking for them.
What are you suggesting? Are you saying it's because he would be an old frail man? Or that the name actually belongs to an entirely different body but for unexplained reasons this is being covered up?
If the government had released actual high res photos and videos of the body it would be clear that the 'fat osama' in the video above wasn't really him, and therefore that the only evidence that OBL was behind 9/11 was completely fabricated.
What makes you think they shot some fat guy, and not some skinny guy?
bonus tip: linking to youtube videos called "9/11 CONSPIRACY: THE BIN LADEN TAPE IS A FAKE!" marginalizes yourself, no matter the content.
Edit: seriously now. I'm not getting this. The public thinks that osama is tall and thin, regardless of whatever video bush was pointing at or whatnot. If they shot a tall thin guy, nobody would think anything of it (except perhaps the people that are predisposed to making "CONSPIRACY" videos on youtube...) If they shot some fat guy (which wouldn't even make sense to do, since the public doesn't recognize him as the guy...), then that should just match up with this apparent evidence video.... which is no big deal?
Explain this to me, if you are going to downvote me.
So why have they been publishing pictures of the skinny guy on a semi-regular basis for nearly a decade now, with no apparent shame? This whole thing makes no sense.
Bin Laden stopped publicly denying responsibility at least as early as 2004. You're free to disbelieve that but don't ignore it in your haste to convince others. You might find that it has the opposite effect from the one you intend.
And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
I do believe the 2004 video is real. However, there are two problems here. First, a video from 2004 inherently cannot be used as a reason for why we should have invaded Afghanistan in 2001. Second, if the December 2001 video was fake, that makes any further statements from OBL very suspect even if they are authentic. That is, any later statements made be OBL should be given much less weight as evidence against him. (In fact, in any trial that was actually fair the charges would be dropped if it was in fact determined that the U.S. had falsified evidence against him.)
Yeah right. The only reason his body was dumped into the sea is because if they had paraded it around, everyone would be able to see that OBL isn't the same as the guy in the video who claimed credit for 9/11.